How has globalization changed the world in terms of religious tolerance and stereotyping?
Globalization has changed everything. For the first time, everyone is aware of what’s going on in the world. If there’s a death among the Palestinians or a bombing in Calcutta, it’s on the news. It immediately plugs into the debate about identity.
Two, it allows people to go back to the sources. When a woman is being murdered in Pakistan and is told that “This is Islam”, she can go back to the Koran and discover it’s not Islam, it is culture. It could be tribal culture or custom, but it’s not Islam. Three, it moves away your sense of isolation.
As globalization has happened, instead of things becoming more tolerant…
This is the paradox of globalization. In the West and America, globalization is seen as a great benefactor, bringing trade and financial development. In African and Asian societies, globalization is seen as an oil tanker in a small pond. It landed there and everything has been disrupted. Some have benefited, but there are hundreds of millions of people who are stuck in poverty. There are 358 individuals who are worth more than half the world’s population. These imbalances are creating a great deal of turmoil.
The way the media works, it’s generally “if it bleeds, it leads”. The most provocative things are put out there. Does that skew people’s perspectives of the way the world actually looks?
Absolutely, so you see on CNN, Fox News, all the major TV channels, who is invited to talk about Islam? It is not the scholars of Islam. You will get someone who knows nothing about Islam but has an ideological position and will attack Islam. Or, you have Muslims who have rejected Islam, who will reinforce this negative image. The information is ideological, it’s distorted, and a lot of it is superficial.
Why is radicalism developing so much now?
I can describe three basic models of Muslim leadership today: the mystic, the modernist, and the orthodox traditionalist. After 9/11, the mystic has been marginalized. He has no answers when your house is being blown up and your wife is being raped. The mystic simply talks of love and compassion and Rumi and that seems irrelevant. The modernist seems irrelevant because he is talking about the law and writing letters. It is the traditionalist who is saying “Islam is under attack. We are being attacked.”
And that is satisfying for people?
It’s emotionally satisfying; it is giving an answer. The traditionalists respond with anger and emotion, and it is a time of anger and emotion. When Muslims look at the world, they see nothing but turmoil and anarchy. They see Palestine, Kashmir—none of these problems have been solved. Look internal to Islam; most countries are under dictatorships. Muslims are saying. “Where do we stand? We are not getting justice from the world, we are not getting justice from our own leaders, and our most cherished icons are being abused. What is there to live for?” Along comes the traditionalist who says “Okay, here’s your answer. Go to paradise.”
You found that the role models in the Muslim world were Osama bin Laden and Ahamdinejad, and anti-Americanism was rampant. What can Americans do?
The young generation of Americans can change the world. They are bright, open, thirsting to do something. One, they need to understand what’s going on in the Muslim world. 90% of information from the media is so negative; they can’t have a real understanding. They need to read, visit, and talk. Two, they need to create some bridges, with scholars, students. Three, they need to start looking at their own society and asking some hard questions. Where is this country going? Are we compromising the ideals that have created us as the great United States of America, the greatest, free-est, and most wonderful democracy?
Working on a grassroots level, or through policy?
Both. Only when grassroots awareness comes in will policy change. Right now the problem is policy in the US is not being dictated by the people. It is working in isolation, hijacked by the neocons. We will face the consequences of that.
The younger generation must recapture leadership here and on the world stage.
Some people say that Muslims are afraid to speak out.
I am giving you my own example. I have suffered, I have been attacked, and I have been smeared. You have to just stand your ground and fight. There is a great thirst to understand Islam. Muslims have to be involved in the dialogue about and around Islam. That is critical, and that is not happening sufficiently.
How do you get people with very radical viewpoints to change? Can it only be one to one, face to face?
It has to be. If I can convert one key figure, who is an ideologue, who in turn can influence thousands of people, I have achieved. I have done that.. It’s not a battle I’m pessimistic about.
To go back to the three models of Islam, the West has to support the modernist. They need books, computers, and libraries. If you support them, they fight the battle of ideas. The modernist and the mystics are being squeezed out. The pendulum is swinging towards the traditionalist. Do you want that, are you unwittingly helping that, or can your younger generation save the situation?
Are you optimistic about the future?
I am when I think of all the wonderful people who are committed to dialogue and discussion. That gives me hope. The pessimism is, against this, you have a tidal wave of ignorance, prejudice and hatred, on both sides. When hatred and prejudice are out of control, this is the slippery slope which leads to anarchy and chaos for civilization. On the heels of one hatred comes another hatred. When you get all the Muslims and put them in internment camps, who’s next?
The interview has been edited and corrected for grammar.
Originally published on April 4, 2007 by The internationalist, intmag.com.